Firefox 89 and Proton

So, the latest Firefox is out with an all-new Proton design and apparently, may cause even the most diehard of Google Chrome fans to switch to it. I've seen the screenshots and I'm not a fan on how the tabs now look but at least there's Dark Mode to actually see them. I wonder if anybody else has their own opinion of it.

For myself, I still use 78 ESR and I will be welcomed with Proton when 91 ESR is out in October. However, I still have Pale Moon as a handy back-up...



  • It looks fine, I guess. The tab bar design is a bit weird but I could probably get used to it. It certainly isn't enough to make me switch from Chrome though.
    It's funny how all these other browsers are trying to copy chrome to get people to switch... Why would I use the imitation when I have the real thing?
  • @BlueSun
    It certainly isn't enough to make me switch from Chrome though.
    Well, Firefox now boasts more privacy protection which I forgot to add to my initial post.

    Also, I hope it can let me keep the Menu Bar even if the browser is deliberately copying Chrome.
  • I like it, but I don't know why compact mode was suddenly dropped.
  • > > It's funny how all these other browsers are trying to copy chrome to get people to switch... Why would I use the imitation when I have the real thing?

    indeed. firefox is missing big features that chrome users regularly use such as PWAs. Mozilla for a time was developing their own version of that but then stopped development on it.

    >I like it, but I don't know why compact mode was suddenly dropped.

    I mean it's mozilla, they love removing features for no good reason. It's only a matter of time till userchrome.css is totally disabled.

  • Firefox 89... the one that broke font rendering in Vista! For now, anyway. I'm not sure if I can fix GDI in time for October.
  • Don't know why browsers are copying Chrome in the first place... you'd think Google wouldn't allow that. Much like every major brand can allow the likes of Aldi to copy their products just for a "cheap" discount.
  • It is so, so, so, so, incredibly tiresome how everyone wants to keep changing around user interfaces for no good reason.

    This is roughly how a real web browser should look. Proper standard system window management controls, on Microsoft Windows this includes the title bar, maximize, minimize, and system box. Proper standard File menu, which is something I use all the freaking time. Back, forwards, reload, URL bar (not a "search" bar, although it happens this one can do that), download manager, and activity indicator (AKA throbber). Then a user bookmark toolbar, web page in the middle, and status bar at the bottom.

    Tabs? Sorry, the OSes I usually use have good window management, so I don't need or want that bad workaround.

    Too much vertical space? I feel so sorry for consumertards who think shortscreen monitors are somehow desirable. (Heck, I had to use one of those the other day, and reading on it was a pain, not to mention they had the resolution set wrong so text and its artifacting looked like it was rendered on an Apple II).

    I could go on and on and on.

  • I mean, apart from the tabs, it's fundamentally the same as your example. The status bar isn't there all the time, but it does show status messages when needed.

    As far as tabs go, it's kind of been one of Firefox's main features since it was released. I never saw the point of them back in the day, but everyone wanted them. These days, I do like having tabs. Keeping all the web stuff in one window is nice.
  • Geez, this update is worse than I thought.

  • If DNS over HTTPS bothers you, turn it off. It's a setting. It wasn't even enabled in my firefox after doing the update, so they clearly aren't actually forcing it on you. As long as they let you choose the provider which includes a custom option, then I don't really care if it's a feature or not.

    Now, if they do DNS over HTTPS with no way to turn it off or change the provider... then that's a problem.

  • I've never really cared what my browser looks like, to me they are mostly the same, and I'm fine with that.

    And I'm sure browsers will be fundamentally the same for the foreseeable future, and honestly, I don't think all that many people really care. Web browsers are like cars: sure, they may be different from each other, but they all do the same thing.
  • Usually whenever they change the UI, I'm annoyed by it for a bit, but then I get used to it. It only really pisses me off when it messes with my muscle memory.
  • The DoH tech by itself does not seem like the worst idea, but the problem is how Firefox is using this to redirect everyone's DNS traffic away from their ISP and hand it over to cloudflare. Ideally DoH should be provided by one's ISP - they already know and control where your traffic is going so if you can't trust them, then there is already a serious problem. I am aware of some ISPs who are not really trustworthy in this regard.

    I do understand why some people wanted tabs when they were put in to Firefox, the window management on some OSes didn't handle large numbers of windows very well. Mac wants people to do one thing at a time, and Linux can be all over the place. When Windows started grouping windows from the same application, that meant extra clicks. The problem gets to be that it forces me to waste space for tabs when I don't use them.

    Another big problem with changing UIs around is that it breaks documentation. A lot of users can only follow click-by-click instructions and when the instructions don't match, they can't do whatever they are doing. It used to be that UIs usually only changed with major revisions, and those could be prepared for well enough in advance. These days a developer in the marketing department presses a button and suddenly it is all different for everyone.
  • edited June 2021
    I don't really understand the distrust in cloudflare. What are you people doing that it matters even slightly that cloudflare knows you resolved a domain? Assuming they can even determine it's you.
    My bigger problem with DNS over HTTP is that name resolution really should be a OS task, so implementation of this should be at the OS level.

    As for using the ISPs name servers, forget that. It's not a trust issue for me, but rather the fact that ISP name servers tend to be the slowest and they love to take over NX domains to show you ads. No thanks.
  • edited November 2021
    Okay, my browser has been upgraded to 91 ESR and let me just say... I don't like it at all. I've also noticed that some windows of other programs "bleed" over the browser window which is very annoying (worse when I have the browser minimised and then restored again).

    Think I'll be binning Firefox for good. It really has let me down in recent years and I don't why I still bother with it. Pale Moon it is then...

    EDIT: I managed to downgrade it back to 78.15 ESR via System Restore and have automatic updates turned off but even so, Firefox can't help nagging me about the new ugly version but thankfully it's not came back again when I closed the browser and opened it again (for now). Also, minor nitpick but I can't have the Light theme as my default browser theme as for some reason it's stuck on Default (and I can't even delete it either). Oh, woe is me...
  • Another thing I did was doing this but, just wasn't the same (and yes I did upgrade to 91 ESR just so I can do it). Apparently the ability to disable Proton entirely was gone since the regular Firefox 91 and I hope the idiots of Mozilla regret it and U-turn on it as they did for the decision to unify the search address bars. Until they do this, I'm staying with 78.15 ESR for now - or otherwise I'll permanently move to Pale Moon (even though browsing experience with it isn't the same, but at least it's better than nothing).
  • I guarantee they have zero motivation for changing it now as I'm willing to bet, the vast majority of Firefox users are fine with the UI changes. I found it a little weird at first, but very quickly got used to the new look. It looks fine.

    Actually, I've even been tempted to switch back from Chrome once or twice.
  • It didn't look fine to me... but then again me still using Windows 7 might be the problem 🤷‍♂️
  • edited November 2021
    Here's what I mean about the "bleeding" problem I'm seeing... I hope it gets fixed or do I have to do something about it (and just so that everyone knows, I used the portable version of the browser for these screenshots).

  • I've given up on Firefox, and switched to Edge. I hated to do it, but Mozilla keeps making the browser worse and worse. It looks and acts like any other browser now, but slower than Edge. The rendering engine is the only thing left.

    I want diversity when it comes to browsing engines, but I can't support Mozilla anymore when they continue to go in the wrong direction. I know I'm not alone in this, as Firefox's market share keeps dropping. They need to go back to what made them special in the first place: A standards compliant browser with proper window controls, that you can really customize with add-ons and themes, that doesn't collect a bunch of data by default and shove ads everywhere. If they continue on this course, Firefox will be dead in no time.
  • @Bry89 Does it do that every time? Have you tried with enabling Aero Glass? I know Chrome used to do weird GUI glitches back in the day when using it on XP with the classic skin. As far as I know, they just never fixed it and the problem solved itself when support for XP was dropped.

    So I'm wondering if something similar is happening with Firefox.
  • edited November 2021
    @BlueSun Well the strange thing is, it's not happening on websites with a dark or mixed theme. Also, Aero Glass did eliminate the issue completely but I was never a fan of it since I first used Windows 7...
  • It seems that Firefox is becoming more desperate to get me to upgrade... I now have this stupid pop-up nagging me about it each time I open up the browser, no joke. I even set "app.update.badgeWaitTime" to a very large number (in seconds) just to delay it but, can't tell if it's working or not 🤷‍♂️
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