What do Apple & Microsoft think of this site?

Win20004life

Serious question for admins or others in the know -

What is the (un)official policy of Apple and Microsoft toward their old products being in the library here? Are they pretty OK with abandoned OSes / software being on offer for the masses? Do they encourage it? Merely tolerate it? Have the likes of Winworldpc ever had a frank discussion about it with the big players?

I know there's been DMCA removal request on Office 2000, anything else of note?

Also, who actually has drawn up the guidelines for what is considered abandonware? Is it an arbitrary judgement or is there a de-facto standard?

I think what we can all agree on is that 70+ year copyright enforcement for intellectual property is beyond ridiculous for products in the fast-moving IT industry.

Really curious to know how the software industry views and deals with the notion of abandonware. Especially the big end of town.

Also I've added a poll to know your opinion on software and copyright.

Thanks,

Plokite_Wolf

These OSes have no danger of people massively downloading them and turning them to their main OS environments. Only Office 97 is *sorta* usable nowadays, but it misses some standards that newer office suites (by MS or LibreOffice) use and is long out of support. So they don't quite care (if they even know).

IIRC, Office 2000 maybe would've been untouched if some kids didn't spam Windows XP keys, which brought a team from MS and they decided they shouldn't go empty-handed...

Win20004life

Plokite_Wolf wrote:

These OSes have no danger of people massively downloading them and turning them to their main OS environments. Only Office 97 is *sorta* usable nowadays, but it misses some standards that newer office suites (by MS or LibreOffice) use and is long out of support. So they don't quite care (if they even know).

IIRC, Office 2000 maybe would've been untouched if some kids didn't spam Windows XP keys, which brought a team from MS and they decided they shouldn't go empty-handed...

True, one important consideration I would think is whether there are now free/open-source alternatives which clearly surpass the hosted abandonware software in functionality and usability.

I recently bought a legit copy of Office 2000 Premium. I quite enjoy using it, but at the same time technically better functionality and compatibility is available in LibreOffice. It seems silly that MS would request removal of their 16 year old office suite with this being the case. Clearly tit-for-tat re: XP product keys it seems.

A similar case could be launched for old Windows versions. As much as I'm not a huge fan of Linux, free alternatives like Ubuntu surpass 95/98/ME in functionality and reliability. Been using 98SE lately and it brings back old memories. Constant restarts, illegal operations, failed setups. Just lots of little random problems, like the cursor will stop working for no reason sometimes after start-up. Or double clicking CD-drive will sometimes start set-up, other times open up the directory. Who designs this stuff?? I'm just waiting for the missing .DLLs and BSODs.

emmanual

Most of DMCA complaint is software made over year 2000 like MS Office 2000, Windows XP and Windows Vista they are take down easy.

emmanual

Abandonware still is copyright software. With software is not support in ten year they consist as abandonware.

dosbox

It doesn't really matter what they think, considering copyright isn't really a real thing you can own.

BOD

"Abandonware" has absolutely no legal definition.

Win20004life

dosbox wrote:

It doesn't really matter what they think, considering copyright isn't really a real thing you can own.

Well it kinda does. If they wanted to they could DMCA this site right out of existence. (Dis)respecting copyright and understanding the implications of it are two completely different things.

SomeGuy

There is no point in speculating or arguing about any of this.

We at Winworld have been doing what we believe is morally right - preserving bits before they pop out of existence and making them available so others can learn from them. And we are not alone in this pursuit.

Microsoft and some other big companies can crush anyone they want whenever they want. They don't need any sniveling laws to do that.

Most of the questions about legalities and such can only authoritatively be answered by lawyers. And there are no lawyers here.

If we find out one of these companies is truly unhappy, we will do what we need to to correct the situation where possible. And that is all anyone can do.

Win20004life

SomeGuy wrote:

There is no point in speculating or arguing about any of this.

We at Winworld have been doing what we believe is morally right - preserving bits before they pop out of existence and making them available so others can learn from them. And we are not alone in this pursuit.

Microsoft and some other big companies can crush anyone they want whenever they want. They don't need any sniveling laws to do that.

Most of the questions about legalities and such can only authoritatively be answered by lawyers. And there are no lawyers here.

If we find out one of these companies is truly unhappy, we will do what we need to to correct the situation where possible. And that is all anyone can do.

Hi SomeGuy,
I think it can be helpful discussing and thinking about the ethics of abandonware. I understand what is legal and what is ethical can be two completely different things. Even the big guys would understand this surely.
To regard something as abandonware though, you need to have a universal working definition of what it is, and/or come to some sort of understanding with the original proprietor.

SomeGuy

Win20004life wrote:

Hi SomeGuy,
I think it can be helpful discussing and thinking about the ethics of abandonware. I understand what is legal and what is ethical can be two completely different things. Even the big guys would understand this surely.

And that's the only reason I haven't locked this thread yet. More often then not, discussion of "legal" issues turn in to shitstorms of idiots thinking they know what is absolutely right. (see the ReactOS web site and all of their old topics of people ignorantly claiming there is no way they can be "legal" for "copying" Microsoft)

So please keep any additional discussion productive.

Win20004life wrote:

To regard something as abandonware though, you need to have a universal working definition of what it is,

Unfortunately, that is not really possible. Different archives are subject to different constraints, and therefore must have different rules. Case in point, Winworld's archive is public-facing. A certain other archive with the initials "B A" is a private archive. A big corp or someone looking to stir up trouble can't just walk in and see for sure what they have.

But Bill Gates himself can download anything from Winworld if he wants

And then game sites have to be more picky about who's games they post because some companies enforce their "IP" on anything that has characters or trademarks that they still activly use and sell, even if the game was made in 10,000BC.

Win20004life wrote:

and/or come to some sort of understanding with the original proprietor.

If only it were that easy. Many companies and software authors are long gone. Those companies that remain are so big that you and I look like ants to them. Kudos to those who try, and even more to those who succeed at getting something re-licensed for free redistribution. I don't believe anyone here has the time for that, so it does wind up sort of "shoot first and ask questions later".

FAMICOMASTER

SomeGuy wrote:

And then game sites have to be more picky about who's games they post because some companies enforce their "IP" on anything that has characters or trademarks that they still activly use and sell, even if the game was made in 10,000BC.

Most true statement I've heard in years!

BOD

That's mostly because old games still have a use. No one wants or sells Word 6.0, but plenty of people will go after mid 90s games, and the likes of Steam and Xbox live arcade will still sell.