Thoughts on Java and Flash?

edited June 2016 in Software
In my opinion, these two buggy, broken platforms, NEED to go.

I mean, come on! Java is ridiculously unstable and insecure. The runtime is found to have vulnerabilities ALL THE TIME. Not to mention that Yahoo! crap that they shove down your throat. Imagine the thousands of end lusers who download it to run some shit and then end up fucking up their computer. It is a huge pain in the ass to troubleshoot. Too many programs still require it. Part of this anger comes from the fact that I (accidentally) downloaded Java (because it was bundled with a command-line tool) and guess what? My homepage changed to Yahoo! Obviously, I removed the Yahoo shitware and Java. If only.

3 days later, I find my PC BSODing every 10-20 minutes. Why? Because this Java applet FUCKED WITH THE REGISTRY. It was some kind of command-line tool. Why the hell did they write it in Java? Why not write this in C# or C++?

And then there's "Flash". It makes the web horrible. Like Java, it's insecure as hell. Honestly, the web devs who make stuff in flash need to migrate to HTML5. My Core 2 Quad machine w/GTX 950 stutters due to those FLASH ADs. I'm was using MS Edge, and the lack of uBlock and Flashblock has made me temporarily migrate to Firefox. Thank God HTML5 is gaining ground. Pages that use Flash, honestly, need to get the fuck off the internet.

Damn it, Oracle and Adobe! Why the hell do you continue to promote these obsolete platforms?

Comments

  • Who is still using flash besides advertisers? Forget HTML 5 or whatever, most web designers need to go back to actually creating web pages rather than trying to shoe-horn a 1990-esq multimedia experience in to a web page.

    And bundling crapware or malware should simply be against the law. Why it isn't, only money can explain...
  • SomeGuy wrote:
    Who is still using flash besides advertisers?
    That's a big problem right there. Flash ads are one of the most annoying thing on things web, and suck up laptop battery life in insane amounts. That was stated in Steve Jobs' "Thoughts on Flash": http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
    SomeGuy wrote:
    Forget HTML 5 or whatever, most web designers need to go back to actually creating web pages rather than trying to shoe-horn a 1990-esq multimedia experience in to a web page.
    Even though I didn't mention that, and that is a extremely valid point, some sites are multimedia by design. YouTube is a good example. That said, I think your opinion is manifested here in amazing accuracy: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... id/306868/
    SomeGuy wrote:
    And bundling crapware or malware should simply be against the law. Why it isn't, only money can explain...
    Yeah. That's probably the biggest disadvantage of being a Windows user. The Windows store is still not feature complete, so that leaves Windows users have a lot of OK programs with bundled junk. Mac users have the App Store, and Linux users have a wealth of packages. Example: On Windows, you have to go to the ad and crapware ridden SourceForge, on Ubuntu, you just type "sudo apt-get install filezilla".
  • Damn it, Oracle and Adobe! Why the hell do you continue to promote these obsolete platforms?
    Money, money is the reason why these applications are still in use. Minecraft runs on java, some of the popular gaming websites use's flash to post the games. And I believe chrome has flash built in to it.

    Honestly, I don't bother using either of these platforms. Youtube works fine with the html5 video stuff. And all you really need is adblocker and a good browser.
  • birdy wrote:
    Money, money is the reason why these applications are still in use. Minecraft runs on java, some of the popular gaming websites use's flash to post the games.
    I knew someone would bring up Minecraft. It doesn't require the runtime to be installed, it comes bundled. And flash gaming websites are (thankfully) not everywhere. I don't play Flash games, and I don't think everyone does. HTML5/WebGL/CSS3 looks far more promising, mostly because of the open standards. Who knows, eventually we might have desktop apps coded in the above. I don't like the idea of ChromeOS like thin clients, though.
    birdy wrote:
    And I believe chrome has flash built in to it.
    Yes, but it's Google's custom Pepper Flash player, not Adobe Flash.
    birdy wrote:
    Honestly, I don't bother using either of these platforms. Youtube works fine with the html5 video stuff. And all you really need is adblocker and a good browser.
    And I mentioned that. I'm using FFX until Edge gets extension support.
  • If i had the source code to flash and java printed on toilet paper, well you know....
  • dosbox wrote:
    If i had the source code to flash and java printed on toilet paper, well you know....
    I hate them so much, I'd do it with the binaries.
  • I'm fairly confident in a few more years we'll see Flash pretty much extinct... Java's going to take a little longer to get rid of. It's still used for tons of embedded management systems like iDRAC and a few UPS's I've dealt with.

    I will definitely be happy to see flash and java go the way of the dodo.
  • Eh, I can't say much about them, other than that I hardly make any use of them. Java was only used for one site's online player until it was replaced with a JavaScript one and Flash for YouTube. I was thinking about getting rid of these things even when I am aware of their vulnerabilities and apparently, Java seems to be a bigger problem for Macs. On top of that, it's no wonder why Ubuntu comes without these installed by default, mostly because they're not open source.

    Ironically, I received a Java update whilst on this thread... lols.
    SomeGuy wrote:
    And bundling crapware or malware should simply be against the law. Why it isn't, only money can explain...
    This, just THIS. Even though it only occurred for this laptop until I flushed them all away recently.
  • When it comes to Linux for Java it is a headache. You got a open source version and then you have Oracle's. The open source one can do somethings the Oracle version can't and vice versa. All depends on what the applet you run was programmed for.

    Granted Flash has seen better days it is still better then embedding Windows media player into a webpage like it was in the 90s.
  • I find OpenJDK sufficient for most of my Java needs. It's got to the point now where I use a Linux VM for Java things like iDRAC, ASDM, etc. because running it on Windows, assuming it works at all, requires accepting about a thousand security prompts. Even when you fucking white list it.
  • Well, look what happen here.


    https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/entry/moving_to_a_plugin_free
    By late 2015, many browser vendors have either removed or announced timelines for the removal of standards based plugin support, eliminating the ability to embed Flash, Silverlight, Java and other plugin based technologies.

    With modern browser vendors working to restrict and reduce plugin support in their products, developers of applications that rely on the Java browser plugin need to consider alternative options such as migrating from Java Applets (which rely on a browser plugin) to the plugin-free Java Web Start technology.

    Oracle plans to deprecate the Java browser plugin in JDK 9. This technology will be removed from the Oracle JDK and JRE in a future Java SE release.

    Early Access releases of JDK 9 are available for download and testing at http://jdk9.java.net. More background and information about different migration options can be found in this short whitepaper from Oracle.
  • Jtyle6 wrote:
    Well, look what happen here.


    https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/entry/moving_to_a_plugin_free
    By late 2015, many browser vendors have either removed or announced timelines for the removal of standards based plugin support, eliminating the ability to embed Flash, Silverlight, Java and other plugin based technologies.

    With modern browser vendors working to restrict and reduce plugin support in their products, developers of applications that rely on the Java browser plugin need to consider alternative options such as migrating from Java Applets (which rely on a browser plugin) to the plugin-free Java Web Start technology.

    Oracle plans to deprecate the Java browser plugin in JDK 9. This technology will be removed from the Oracle JDK and JRE in a future Java SE release.

    Early Access releases of JDK 9 are available for download and testing at http://jdk9.java.net. More background and information about different migration options can be found in this short whitepaper from Oracle.
    Fuck yeah.

    It looks like Oracle read my rant, and finally fixed it (somewhat). Now devs who half-assed it and used Java on the web are now going to suffer payback.

    Too bad Java is still too common in desktop applications. This is a baby step in the right direction, though!
  • It always blew my mind how idiots always wanted EVERYTHING in a freaking web browser. For example opening a PDF document in a web browser is retardedly limiting. And 99% of the time I actually wanted to save it disk instead anyway.

    I used to work with a nice win32 desktop database system with a fairly flexible user interface, but they discontinued that in favor of a browser embedded java application. A web browser is complete shit for data entry. With or without java.

    Flash? The only thing it was good for was playing Youtube videos. And I'd still have preferred to just click a link to open my video in my choice of external media player.

    Anyone remember how Microsoft tried to make people use their Remote Desktop Client using web page with the RDP program simply embedded as an OCX control? With fewer options than using the proper desktop interface. And of course it didn't use HTTP so if you were behind a proxy it wouldn't work even though it looked like "oh its on teh webb!1!".

    Although most "HTML 5" doesn't belong in a web page.
  • Can we go back to when developers actually ignored drafts and just plain stuck with the standards?
  • Because the standards were extremely outdated and the new ones mostly related to XHTML (which I liked, but apparently webdevs didn't) - it's only in the past few years HTML 5 was pushed to actually move along.

    Also, VMware uses a Flash abomination for vCenter.
  • dosbox wrote:
    Can we go back to when developers actually ignored drafts and just plain stuck with the standards?

    HTML5 is a standard now.
  • SomeGuy wrote:
    Who is still using flash besides advertisers?
    A chatting service named xat uses flash AFIAK. Don't know when they will switch.
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