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Mac OS help

PCATPCAT
edited December 2016 in Hardware
So recently the 120GB hard disk in my MacBook (late 2007) failed. All my files are backed up and current, thankfully, but the operating system was not, meaning I had to reinstall.

However, when I put the disc in... Nothing. The optical drive made some sad noises and started reading the disc (or at least spinning), but it would not enter setup.

The operating system issue has been solved as of 11/30/2016.
Apple MacBook November 2007
Intel Core2 Duo 1.83GHz
2GB RAM @ 533MHz
Intel 945 (GMA 950) video
Built-in display (1280x800)
60GB SATA Hard disk
Mac OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard

I was attempting to install Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion), and while according to Wikipedia it should be compatible, I'm not exactly sure.

A little more information to try and help:
Model A1181
Powered FireWire 400 (6 pin) connector
Two USB ports on the side
DisplayPort connector
MagSafe connector

I should also make note here that the built in keyboard doesn't often work and that I've been using an external USB keyboard from my Samsung Q1 Ultra(s) with it until I can afford to buy a replacement.

I feel like it's probably my optical drive. Does an external keyboard work at startup?

Ideas? Suggestions?

Comments

  • calvinbcalvinb
    IIRC, hold the C key on startup. That should force CD boot.

    However, don't run old OS X. It's not patched anymore, and apps likely won't support it. Hilariously, that Mac is better off running Windows.
  • garirrygarirry
    If you hold Option on bootup instead, you will see all drives from which you can actually boot from, including optical drive. It will show up if the disc is recognized as bootable in the first place.

    As for the OS, I noticed how my MacBook, both Early (or Late, can't remember) 2008 and Early 2009 are faster on 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, and 10.11 compared to running Windows 7. It's a much smoother experience on OS X in my opinion, however 10.11 sucks if it doesn't have an SSD. I'd suggest instead of installing 10.7 if you care for performance more than compatibility, install 10.6 instead. And if you want to go an extra mile, you could go as far as installing Windows XP instead of 7, but it's really dependant on how much compatibility and security you're willing to sacrifice for performance.
  • PCATPCAT
    ampharos wrote:
    IIRC, hold the C key on startup. That should force CD boot.

    However, don't run old OS X. It's not patched anymore, and apps likely won't support it. Hilariously, that Mac is better off running Windows.
    It won't start up from the optical drive. There's a Mac OS X 10.7 Lion DVD in there but it won't boot from it. I got Mac OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard running on it fine, which is what I'm using now, but I'd like to install Windows XP on it when I get the time.
    garirry wrote:
    If you hold Option on bootup instead, you will see all drives from which you can actually boot from, including optical drive. It will show up if the disc is recognized as bootable in the first place.

    My option key is broken. All the keys are physically present and press down just fine, but many aren't recognized by Mac OS X. What are my options here as far as repair or replacement?





    I should mention that I got Mac OS X to successfully install... Barely. Here's how I did it (since it's a bit out there): 
    Remove hard disk
Put hard disk in another computer (PowerMac G5 in my case)
Use disk utility to repartition hard disk with ~8GB partition at the end of the drive making sure to use GUID
Restore the 8GB partition to an image of the Mac OS install disc
Format main partition as Mac OS Journaled
Put disk back in MacBook and wait.

    Would Windows XP be suitable for this machine? My first post details the specifications.
  • jamie1130jamie1130
    If it has a Core 2 Duo, why run Windows XP? Its old now, and that MacBook would gladly run Windows 7.
  • DeceiverDeceiver
    If that MacBook is still running OSX Snow Leopard, then you can also go to settings -> startup disk and select the install disc that you want to boot from. Then click restart.

    I should point out that if the optical drive is indeed broken, then there's no way that you'll be able to install Windows on it as these older MacBooks are configured to only boot legacy OS's through either the built-in hard drive or the optical drive that came with the system. Even if you used a USB optical drive it would still refuse to boot from the Windows installation CD/DVD. EFI boot should probably work though, but you can't do that as that model MacBook has been crippled to only allow booting 32-bit OS's for some reason.

    With that said, if you create a Lion bootable USB drive you actually can boot from that, as OSX and OSX install media use an EFI boot loader.
  • garirrygarirry
    Deceiver wrote:
    If that MacBook is still running OSX Snow Leopard, then you can also go to settings -> startup disk and select the install disc that you want to boot from. Then click restart.

    I should point out that if the optical drive is indeed broken, then there's no way that you'll be able to install Windows on it as these older MacBooks are configured to only boot legacy OS's through either the built-in hard drive or the optical drive that came with the system. Even if you used a USB optical drive it would still refuse to boot from the Windows installation CD/DVD. EFI boot should probably work though, but you can't do that as that model MacBook has been crippled to only allow booting 32-bit OS's for some reason.

    With that said, if you create a Lion bootable USB drive you actually can boot from that, as OSX and OSX install media use an EFI boot loader.
    My Macbook 2009 has no optical drive in the first place and yes it does boot through an external drive when installing Boot Camp Windows. If the internal drive is recognized in the first place but not reading discs, then maybe it could be possible to disconnect it from the motherboard, I don't know.
  • calvinbcalvinb
    XP would be an even worse idea than Lion. Please run something maintained if you're going to take it onto the network.
  • DeceiverDeceiver
    garirry wrote:
    Deceiver wrote:
    If that MacBook is still running OSX Snow Leopard, then you can also go to settings -> startup disk and select the install disc that you want to boot from. Then click restart.

    I should point out that if the optical drive is indeed broken, then there's no way that you'll be able to install Windows on it as these older MacBooks are configured to only boot legacy OS's through either the built-in hard drive or the optical drive that came with the system. Even if you used a USB optical drive it would still refuse to boot from the Windows installation CD/DVD. EFI boot should probably work though, but you can't do that as that model MacBook has been crippled to only allow booting 32-bit OS's for some reason.

    With that said, if you create a Lion bootable USB drive you actually can boot from that, as OSX and OSX install media use an EFI boot loader.
    My Macbook 2009 has no optical drive in the first place and yes it does boot through an external drive when installing Boot Camp Windows. If the internal drive is recognized in the first place but not reading discs, then maybe it could be possible to disconnect it from the motherboard, I don't know.

    Hmm, I think that restriction only applies to certain models then. I know that it exists though, because I experienced it myself when I tried to boot from a Windows 7 install DVD on a 2006 MacBook with a faulty optical drive (tried it through a USB optical drive, wouldn't boot. After googling the issue I found out why).

    I can't be totally sure of course.
  • PCATPCAT
    jamie1130 wrote:
    If it has a Core 2 Duo, why run Windows XP? Its old now, and that MacBook would gladly run Windows 7.

    I don't like Windows 7 very much - I prefer XP or 8.1, and besides, I've got no need for "security," and I really don't want updates as is, let alone new ones.
    Deceiver wrote:
    If that MacBook is still running OSX Snow Leopard, then you can also go to settings -> startup disk and select the install disc that you want to boot from. Then click restart.

    I should point out that if the optical drive is indeed broken, then there's no way that you'll be able to install Windows on it as these older MacBooks are configured to only boot legacy OS's through either the built-in hard drive or the optical drive that came with the system. Even if you used a USB optical drive it would still refuse to boot from the Windows installation CD/DVD. EFI boot should probably work though, but you can't do that as that model MacBook has been crippled to only allow booting 32-bit OS's for some reason.

    With that said, if you create a Lion bootable USB drive you actually can boot from that, as OSX and OSX install media use an EFI boot loader.

    The optical drive is completely dead, it won't even read the disc that's stuck in it anymore.
    ampharos wrote:
    XP would be an even worse idea than Lion. Please run something maintained if you're going to take it onto the network.
    It's running Snow Leopard quite happily right now - well enough that I'm using it to write this post (albeit with an external keyboard).

    Out of curiosity, besides the obligatory, "muh security," what other reasons are there to run a more modern operating system?
  • calvinbcalvinb
    It's actually more performant. You'd be surprised how well Windows 8.1 and 10 runs on such hardware.

    If you're going to have it attached to the network, run updates. There's no reason not to.
  • PCATPCAT
    ampharos wrote:
    It's actually more performant. You'd be surprised how well Windows 8.1 and 10 runs on such hardware.

    If you're going to have it attached to the network, run updates. There's no reason not to.

    Windows 8.1 handles a Celeron 900 fine - Windows 10 takes 27 minutes to start up and get to a usable desktop.
    Not running Windows 10, and to be honest at this point operating system is not a concern anymore. I'm going to run Snow Leopard or Lion, since I don't have an optical drive to install Windows with, nor a disc to install BootCamp drivers with.

    It's on the internet right now and I've run all available updates for Snow Leopard (putting it at 10.6.8), so unless my Lion DVD starts to work, it's going to be on 10.6 until I get a new optical drive for it.

    If I were to install Windows, it would likely be XP or 2000 since I've had a very bad experience with others on a Core2 Duo before (performance-wise), and I'm not going to be keeping any sensitive information on this computer anyways and I've got quick reinstalls at hand.

    All sensitive information is kept on a quite old (Windows 95) machine in a fireproof safe away from the internet and any harm that could come to it.

    The matter of operating systems is no longer up for discussion. Thank you.

    Would I be able to disassemble the keyboard somehow (to component parts) to clean it? How would I safely take apart the optical drive to remove my disc but also prevent it from being damaged?

    Everything except those two work fine, even the battery has decent life surprisingly.
  • SoftPCMuseumSoftPCMuseum
    PCAT wrote:
    If I were to install Windows, it would likely be XP or 2000 since I've had a very bad experience with others on a Core2 Duo before (performance-wise), and I'm not going to be keeping any sensitive information on this computer anyways and I've got quick reinstalls at hand.
    Then something is obviously wrong there - the Intel Core 2 Duo came out at around the same time that Windows Vista was nearing completion at the earliest, and the Core Duo was released when Windows Vista was nearing Beta 2 stage. An Intel Core 2 Duo should at the very least be able to run Windows 7 with no issues at all, and in most cases should also have no problems running even the latest versions of Windows 10. In most cases even the 64-bit versions of WIndows 8.1 and higher would work since the CPU meets the minimum CPU requirements.

    You could certainly install Windows XP on that system if you want, but it would simply be a waste of perfectly good technology and CPU resources if you decided to avoid anything that came after that.
  • PCATPCAT
    SoftPCMuseum wrote:
    PCAT wrote:
    If I were to install Windows, it would likely be XP or 2000 since I've had a very bad experience with others on a Core2 Duo before (performance-wise), and I'm not going to be keeping any sensitive information on this computer anyways and I've got quick reinstalls at hand.
    Then something is obviously wrong there - the Intel Core 2 Duo came out at around the same time that Windows Vista was nearing completion at the earliest, and the Core Duo was released when Windows Vista was nearing Beta 2 stage. An Intel Core 2 Duo should at the very least be able to run Windows 7 with no issues at all, and in most cases should also have no problems running even the latest versions of Windows 10. In most cases even the 64-bit versions of WIndows 8.1 and higher would work since the CPU meets the minimum CPU requirements.

    You could certainly install Windows XP on that system if you want, but it would simply be a waste of perfectly good technology and CPU resources if you decided to avoid anything that came after that.

    I told you, I don't plan to install Windows, especially not Windows 10 since I've had issues running it on my i5 desktop as-is.

    I don't like the way 7 looks and Vista just seems like a bad option for everything - so it would have to be XP since in Windows I have to have DOS support, but NT as well.

    "Wasting good resources" is not an issue, it's only got 2GB of RAM anyways which means that none of it is going to be wasted in address overlapping from system devices. I don't plan to make that any higher either, since all my programs run fine with 256MB of RAM.
  • SoftPCMuseumSoftPCMuseum
    PCAT wrote:
    I told you, I don't plan to install Windows, especially not Windows 10 since I've had issues running it on my i5 desktop as-is.

    I don't like the way 7 looks and Vista just seems like a bad option for everything - so it would have to be XP since in Windows I have to have DOS support, but NT as well.

    "Wasting good resources" is not an issue, it's only got 2GB of RAM anyways which means that none of it is going to be wasted in address overlapping from system devices. I don't plan to make that any higher either, since all my programs run fine with 256MB of RAM.
    Well your earlier post seemed to suggest that you were planning on dual-booting between Mac OS X and Windows, and that you decided to install Windows XP or earlier, and you yourself also claimed that anything later than that would have problems running on an Intel Core 2 Duo, which is why I replied.

    Also, even if I would agree with some users that upgrading to 4 GB of RAM would give a significant performance boost, even today's versions of Windows will still run fine with 2 GB of RAM. Remember that the old versions of Windows that you're talking about were designed when PCs generally had 128 MB of RAM, 256 MB of RAM, or 512 MB of RAM at the highest. But it's your choice.
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