Unsupported OSes and the Internet

edited April 2017 in Software
Two things that don't really mix together, but I suppose we can have a discussion about this at least.

Other than Windows XP, which has more security holes than a block Emmental cheese, is it always a risk to have an unsupported OS hooked up to the Internet? I ask because of two things: one is that I do some internet browsing under the Windows 2000 VirtualBox VM from time to time even though this site does warn you of having an internet connected wired up to it if not filtered and secondly, the Mac that is present in my current work place runs OS X Lion, where Apple pulled support for that the same time WinXP was cut though is considered newer than XP itself. Of course, several sites will deny you access for having an old browser but at least the latest version of Safari was able to be used under it but even so, is it safe to browse under that OS? This would also apply to the Win9x versions also but, does anybody actually surf the net under that, even on a very old version of Firefox or Opera compatible for it?

Discuss, my fellow people.

Comments

  • The oldest thing I have right now is Windows XP, and it causes enough problems trying to browse when I'm limited on updates or new software due to an old OS. How well can you view websites on old OSes with even older browsers? It seems to me that the dynamic content in many websites today would make them virtually unreadable if not actually unreadable.

    As far as security goes, I don't know if being connected itself is a bad thing unless you're already compromised. I think browsing the web would be problematic in most if not all cases, but IRC or something else? Not necessarily, I suppose, if you actually get on to chat and stay away from warez and porn. Of course, the bigger question is: why take the risk at all?
  • First of all, it is a HUGE mistake to think of a current, updated OS is 100% secure. Seriously, come back a year from now and see how many bugs/exploits have been found in your OS, and realize that the bad guys likely know about those.

    Second, keep in mind that just the OS and browser are not the only attack vectors. I once got a VM (with nothing important on it) powned because I forgot there was an old buggy version of Acrobat Reader installed (whoever though it was a good idea for a web browser to automatically open PDFs needs to be shot).

    Honestly, it has gotten to the point where all browsing really should be done in a carefully quarantined VM.

    You can mitigate issues by only visiting known web sites and using a good ad blocker.

    Randomly googling for things can be a problem though.

    Now, depending on WHAT older OS you are talking about, it just might not be targeted, and possibly "safe enough" just because it can't run that stuff. However, at the moment I would expect XP to be somewhat targeted - especially since browser vendors have dropped support (Yet there is a nice updated fork of Firefox for MacOS 10.4 PPC)

    And yes, the other problem is just loading the damn sites where everyone wants HTML 987987982376 or whatever they are up to today. It has gotten even worse because of browser vendors and their rapid updates. If you are browsing with a version more than a month or so old, you literally risk not being able to load sites. (On the flip side, when those same updates break older sites, you are simply fucked).

    I have heard of some "translators" that will convert web pages for use on much older browsers, but that will still only get you so far.
  • I sometimes use Opera 12 on Windows 98SE, through KernelEX. I also block ads using the host file to speed up browsing and keep malware-infested ads away. As long as you know and trust the sites you're visiting, there shouldn't be too many security issues unless you already have some kind of virus on your machine. In the case of very old OSes (95,98, NT), I've found that many viruses floating around today won't even run on them (sometimes I use walled-off virtual machines to run the fun exe files I find in spam emails, just to see what they do). That said, I wouldn't do any work too serious on such old OSes if you plan to surf the web with them.
  • An unpatched, unsupported OS sitting there on the internet behind a firewall will likely never be found or exploited. It's only once you start browsing sites and executing programs and loading files from the internet that you risk becoming infected.

    Most browser based exploits will target modern browsers and OS's and likely won't work against the old stuff. So I would say if you're running a sufficiently old OS (XP doesn't count since it's still got a decent chuck of users out there, so 2000 and older) that your risk of becoming infected at this point is pretty low. But as with any OS, just don't do anything sketchy and you'll be fine. A machine won't infect itself.

    A few years ago, I was working with a team at school to exploit an unfirewalled Windows 2000 box... none of the tools we had at the time had working exploits against 2000... We wound up getting into the XP boxes and the 2008 boxes but not the 2000 box. Now, if we had downgraded our tools or loaded different modules, we probably could have got in... but with the defaults, nothing.

    Now, if you connect an old OS directly to the internet, unfiltered, you will probably get owned fairly quickly and if done correctly, you probably wouldn't notice... at least not right away. Why? Because automated scans and scripts run on the internet all the time trying to find holes and exploit them and some of these scripts have been running for quite a while. The internet is a big place...
  • BlueSun wrote:
    Most browser based exploits will target modern browsers and OS's and likely won't work against the old stuff. So I would say if you're running a sufficiently old OS (XP doesn't count since it's still got a decent chuck of users out there, so 2000 and older) that your risk of becoming infected at this point is pretty low. But as with any OS, just don't do anything sketchy and you'll be fine. A machine won't infect itself.
    So in that case, would browsing the net with OS X Lion be considered "safe" then? Even for Win2000?
  • Lion is new enough that I would imagine it still has a few exploits out there... but, in general, there are fewer exploits for OS X anyway... again, if you avoid going to sketchy sites and use an adblocker, you'll probably be fine.
  • I recommend running Puppy Linux (or similar low spec distro) on a live CD to get your old systems online. I run Wary Puppy 5.5 on my Windows 98 system and I'm able to get online through a wired ethernet connection and I've even posted on this site with that system. It can't do YouTube or any of the more bloated mainstream sites but it gets round the forums and downloads any files I want.

    I don't think it gets much safer than an OS on a CD-R, an OS with obsolete protocol and a hard drive with nothing but old MS-DOS/95/98 games.
  • SomeGuy wrote:

    Honestly, it has gotten to the point where all browsing really should be done in a carefully quarantined VM.

    Randomly googling for things can be a problem though..

    The VM idea is darned good & been asking people why they don't just do that and end the worries.

    I spend most of my internet time searching for program info/files - have Malwarebytes for on demand scanning only.
    In other words, I run naked - always have - always will.

    Nanny Google has its "safe browsing" turned off because it flags innocent files as "possible malware, etc" same as all the POS antivirus suites that just raise a flag at everything. Still, Google seach & Google Chrome are the best tools for web searching, so they stay on my machines.

    There's some vicious pop-under ads - typically on torrent sites - but I've run into them elsewhere - just have to back out or kill the browser window.

    But - as far as security holes etc that everyone is talking about - man life's too short. Put your impoortant files someplace safe, don't leave vital info on your browsing machine and let that be that.
  • Because VM escape exploits do exist, and while hardware acceleration has vastly improved, it can be a performance burden due to overhead.

    If you're interested in this, look into Qubes OS though - it tries to integrate virtualized applications seamless into the UI with a major focus on security.
  • Assuming you have an anti-virus program on both OSs that have updated virus definitions and are actively protecting you, you should be okay.
  • That's only if said anti-virus software is supported on that obsolete OS but. If a new version is out and your OS can't support it, then you're in trouble. Unless you get ClamWin to protect you (...not).
  • True, but Avast 8 can still get virus definitions and supports Windows 2000 and XP.
  • Sounds good and all but, how long would it be supporting these systems for? :?
  • I don't give a hoot about possible exploits. I know, but I've been doing this awhile now.

    I don't care about "support" either. Never saw "support" as having a meaningful benefit in my day-to-day work.

    I found it interesting that the Windows 98 VM I installed a couple weeks back - never had a need, but the other day, just for shits & grins, fired up the installation of Opera it had and cruised this site and a couple others I regularly visit.

    Got to say, it was quite acceptable.

    Personally, I firmly believe ALL of these AV softs blows goats and is /are scams and at best are CPU cycle robbing sluts - at worst - malware themselves.

    Blech!
  • Well, not without reason do I call a certain popular software package "Norton Virus".
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