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MacOS X Panther & Tiger

Bry89Bry89
edited February 2016 in Software
Is there a possibility for these MacOS X versions be added to the library? I don't know if Jaguar would be the maximum version to be there as with the Whistler betas, even though they are somewhat classed as abandonware like the rest of the OSes here.. or maybe just Panther would do. Just curious.
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Comments

  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    I fondly remember Tiger. That was the last OS X version I've ever used. Too bad my iBook G4's screen is busted. I am looking for the disk, and will offer it if I find it.

    I do believe OS X Panther/Tiger are abandonware, because:

    They're Over 10 Years Old.
    They're unsupported
    They are abandoned by the general populace (Ignore TenFourFox!)

    I am not an Administrator, though, so don't take my word for this.
  • Bry89Bry89
    I remember Tiger too, from my college days until the computers there mostly adopted Leopard months later which was a good one too. Would be good if they are up, just so that folk can see what Safari was like when it was a new thing (although trying to get networking set up for PearPC just breaks it). We'll see what they say though.
  • DoctorDoctor
    Just had a play on Mac OS X Tiger on a VM.
    Safari sure changed a lot but still, I'm surprised how well certain modern web sites run on this old thing.
  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    Doctor wrote:
    Just had a play on Mac OS X Tiger on a VM.
    PearPC? How did you get that to even boot, much less get the internet working?
  • garirrygarirry
    I agree, Panther and Tiger should be added to the library, maybe even Leopard. Their usage is very low currently, the retail versions of Panther and Tiger do not support Intel Macs, basically no software post-2010 supports them, and the minimum to upgrade to any version Lion or newer (without creating a disk image) requires Snow Leopard, so I think they should be added. If I get my hands on retail copies of these, I'll be sure to offer them.

    (For reference, Panther is 10.3, Tiger is 10.4, Leopard is 10.5, SL is 10.6, Lion is 10.7)
  • DoctorDoctor
    wpblogheader wrote:
    Doctor wrote:
    Just had a play on Mac OS X Tiger on a VM.
    PearPC? How did you get that to even boot, much less get the internet working?
    hmm...nope, not pear pc. VMWare Player. How? Remember these old OSx86 iso images?
  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    Doctor wrote:
    wpblogheader wrote:
    Doctor wrote:
    Just had a play on Mac OS X Tiger on a VM.
    PearPC? How did you get that to even boot, much less get the internet working?
    hmm...nope, not pear pc. VMWare Player. How? Remember these old OSx86 iso images?
    Is the performance any good? I have VMware Workstation 12 Pro, so does the lack of VMware tools still result in good performance?

    I did find an article for the x86 Tiger you mentioned. Not the ISO though:

    http://www.computerworld.com/article/25 ... stall.html
  • SomeGuySomeGuy
    10.3 should be OK if anyone could provide an unmodified, original, retail ISO image. I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.
  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    SomeGuy wrote:
    10.3 should be OK if anyone could provide an unmodified, original, retail ISO image. I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.
    Personally, I think WinWorld should carry Mac OS X all the way to Leopard. Not the Intel versions, though.
  • garirrygarirry
    wpblogheader wrote:
    SomeGuy wrote:
    10.3 should be OK if anyone could provide an unmodified, original, retail ISO image. I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.
    Personally, I think WinWorld should carry Mac OS X all the way to Leopard. Not the Intel versions, though.
    Leopard was an universal version (supported both Intel and PPC from beginning to end) and Tiger's retail version was only offered for PPC. Recovery discs were required in order to install Tiger on Intel.
  • Bry89Bry89
    Doctor wrote:
    wpblogheader wrote:
    Doctor wrote:
    Just had a play on Mac OS X Tiger on a VM.
    PearPC? How did you get that to even boot, much less get the internet working?
    hmm...nope, not pear pc. VMWare Player. How? Remember these old OSx86 iso images?
    I'd assume Jaguar may work well under it too, but I wouldn't think Internet Explorer for Mac would be though...
  • TCPMetaTCPMeta
    Tiger was my favorite version of OS X. Ran quick on my headless iMac G3 trayload.
  • thinkpadmanthinkpadman
    SomeGuy wrote:
    10.3 should be OK if anyone could provide an unmodified, original, retail ISO image. I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.

    Well when you think it's time, I have a retail DVD copy of Tiger I bought off eBay for my G4 towers. I also downloaded the CD version after finding out one of the machines only had a CD-RW drive in it which is harder to find the originals of.
  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    SomeGuy wrote:
    I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.
    Oh. I checked, and it seemed that Leopard succeeded Tiger in 2007. The last security update for Tiger was in 2009. Safari support for Tiger ended 2010.

    Tiger is the one that really interests me, Leopard is still too new.
  • KCompRoom2000KCompRoom2000
    wpblogheader wrote:
    SomeGuy wrote:
    I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.
    Oh. I checked, and it seemed that Leopard succeeded Tiger in 2007. The last security update for Tiger was in 2009. Safari support for Tiger ended 2010.

    Tiger is the one that really interests me, Leopard is still too new.
    I think part of why Tiger is a little new to be Abandonware is because believe it or not, It's still quite usable today if you know which software to use. It's even more usable than Windows 2000 and Mac OS X Panther. A list of software for Tiger that's still usable today includes: Adobe CS2 Suite, MS Office 2008, TenFourFox, And the last iTunes for Tiger. (Which AFAIK still works with the store.)
  • Bry89Bry89
    I'm surprised people still use Tiger to be honest, even when support for that ended years ago. Although, it does have a very small market share (about 0.01%) so it's likely to become abandonware in a few years time.
  • garirrygarirry
    To my knowledge, most Tiger users are collectors and computer geeks/nerds like me who own and use old software/old hardware. I was surprised though when I saw one MacBook still running Tiger some place I knew. I upgraded it to 3GB of RAM and installed ML using a hack.
  • DoctorDoctor
    wpblogheader wrote:
    Doctor wrote:
    wpblogheader wrote:
    Doctor wrote:
    Just had a play on Mac OS X Tiger on a VM.
    PearPC? How did you get that to even boot, much less get the internet working?
    hmm...nope, not pear pc. VMWare Player. How? Remember these old OSx86 iso images?
    Is the performance any good? I have VMware Workstation 12 Pro, so does the lack of VMware tools still result in good performance?

    I did find an article for the x86 Tiger you mentioned. Not the ISO though:

    http://www.computerworld.com/article/25 ... stall.html

    I think that was that ISO.
    I don't remember the name of the ISO, but I think Mac OS detected the Computer as being an Apple Development Platform (you know, the computers used by Devs to transition software from PPC to intel?)
  • stitchstitch
    SomeGuy wrote:
    10.3 should be OK if anyone could provide an unmodified, original, retail ISO image. I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.

    I will accept anything PowerPC. Intel is a no-go on WinWorld. It doesn't matter what version, the hackintosh scene has proven that it will fall to extreme scrutiny and threatening letters from Apple legal. Everything PowerPC however is "obsolete" hardware by Apple's standards, so it's fair game until further notice.
  • TheRedWombatTheRedWombat
    If I could find some of my old install disks would you guys want a copy for WinWorld?


    Also, good lord has it been a while.

    Edit: and apparently my most active topic is one identical to this (basically) from a while back.
  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    stitch wrote:
    Everything PowerPC however is "obsolete" hardware by Apple's standards, so it's fair game until further notice.
    So, OS X Panther can be uploaded? It's last update was in April 15, 2005.
    11 years old. Past the 7 year threshold.

    OS X Panther is also unsupported. 11+ years w/o an update seems to be. Plus, PPC has been long deprecated.

    Is it abandoned? Yes. PPC is pretty much dead, and the only people who actively use PPC are retrocomputing. Example: TenFourFox (although I'm not sure if it runs on 10.3)

    Tiger's last update was in 2009. Still too new.
  • TheRedWombatTheRedWombat
    stitch wrote:
    SomeGuy wrote:
    10.3 should be OK if anyone could provide an unmodified, original, retail ISO image. I think 10.4 and 10.5 still need a bit longer though.

    I will accept anything PowerPC. Intel is a no-go on WinWorld. It doesn't matter what version, the hackintosh scene has proven that it will fall to extreme scrutiny and threatening letters from Apple legal. Everything PowerPC however is "obsolete" hardware by Apple's standards, so it's fair game until further notice.

    Sounds like that's the answer if I'm not mistaken :mrgreen:
  • SomeGuySomeGuy
    10.3 (panther) is PPC only, and there is little demand for it compared to other versions.

    10.4 is the last stop for many PPC users because it was the last to natively support running classic Mac OS application.

    By Stitch's measure the original retail 10.4 release was PPC only and would technically be OK, but I think it would be too confusing for the time being as the later ones had intel version intermixed.

    10.5 was PPC/Intel right off the bat. And it was the last for PPC machines so for those that didn't need classic mac OS compatibility, this is where the train stops. PS, don't worry about sending that one in. If/when the time comes I have original 10.5 retail DVDs here.

    In the mean time, for those reasons, you should still be able to easily find 10.4 or 10.5 at your favorite torrent sites. No real need for them to be here anyway.
  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    edited January 2016
    SomeGuy wrote:
    10.3 (panther) is PPC only, and there is little demand for it compared to other versions.

    10.4 is the last stop for many PPC users because it was the last to natively support running classic Mac OS application.

    By Stitch's measure the original retail 10.4 release was PPC only and would technically be OK, but I think it would be too confusing for the time being as the later ones had intel version intermixed.

    10.5 was PPC/Intel right off the bat. And it was the last for PPC machines so for those that didn't need classic mac OS compatibility, this is where the train stops. PS, don't worry about sending that one in. If/when the time comes I have original 10.5 retail DVDs here.

    In the mean time, for those reasons, you should still be able to easily find 10.4 or 10.5 at your favorite torrent sites. No real need for them to be here anyway.
    So WinWorld can carry Panther? The original Tiger might be worth posting, but it still may fall under Apple's radar. I dunno why they would be finicky about OS X 10.4 for PPC. Intel I maybe can understand. Leopard definitely.
  • garirrygarirry
    wpblogheader wrote:
    stitch wrote:
    Everything PowerPC however is "obsolete" hardware by Apple's standards, so it's fair game until further notice.
    So, OS X Panther can be uploaded? It's last update was in April 15, 2005.
    11 years old. Past the 7 year threshold.
    Uh, Windows 2000's last update was in 2010 I believe, that's not even six years yet it's been here for quite a while. It's based on the release date, not the last update date. The 7 year gate is only to make sure there isn't any "can you post Windows 8 on this site" and I'm sure can be flexible.

    As for Tiger, I may be wrong on this, but I think 10.4 never released in retail for Intel machines, I believe only the recovery discs had them (which are only accessible on other machines through hacking and re-burning). So personally I think Tiger should be fine, but Leopard can wait a bit. Not gonna argue much, just saying my opinion.
  • stitchstitch
    Guys things are ultimately evaluated on their own. Factors other than age come into play; factors like vendor upstream support, last update, last security update, hardware support, rapid release cycles and market share. All of these can play into whether something is "abandoned" or not. Ultimately the choice to carry it or not is up to staff.

    10.4 was indeed never in retail for Intel. 10.4 for Intel always required a machine specific disc. So on that note carrying 10.3 and 10.4 retail for PowerPC will be OK as those discs are unusable with Intel hardware, even if a later Tiger disk *may* carry FAT binaries.

    I am personally OK with 10.5 as well as it's just as unusable as 10.3 and 10.4 but if SomeGuy does not wish to keep it, then that's the official verdict for now. We can revisit 10.5 as the OS X platform matures further.
  • Bry89Bry89
    stitch wrote:
    I am personally OK with 10.5 as well as it's just as unusable as 10.3 and 10.4 but if SomeGuy does not wish to keep it, then that's the official verdict for now. We can revisit 10.5 as the OS X platform matures further.
    If that may be added to the library sooner or later, I'm curious of what emulator may run it considering that PearPC can only support up to Tiger (the PowerPC version of it that is) as far as I know, unless making a Hackintosh needs to be done even though it is frowned upon for all the right reasons.
  • stitchstitch
    Bry89 wrote:
    stitch wrote:
    I am personally OK with 10.5 as well as it's just as unusable as 10.3 and 10.4 but if SomeGuy does not wish to keep it, then that's the official verdict for now. We can revisit 10.5 as the OS X platform matures further.
    If that may be added to the library sooner or later, I'm curious of what emulator may run it considering that PearPC can only support up to Tiger (the PowerPC version of it that is) as far as I know, unless making a Hackintosh needs to be done even though it is frowned upon for all the right reasons.

    ....

    It doesn't run on an emulator.

    It runs on old Apple PowerPC hardware.
  • wpblogheaderwpblogheader
    stitch wrote:
    Bry89 wrote:
    stitch wrote:
    I am personally OK with 10.5 as well as it's just as unusable as 10.3 and 10.4 but if SomeGuy does not wish to keep it, then that's the official verdict for now. We can revisit 10.5 as the OS X platform matures further.
    If that may be added to the library sooner or later, I'm curious of what emulator may run it considering that PearPC can only support up to Tiger (the PowerPC version of it that is) as far as I know, unless making a Hackintosh needs to be done even though it is frowned upon for all the right reasons.

    ....

    It doesn't run on an emulator.

    It runs on old Apple PowerPC hardware.
    Remember PearPC? That PowerPC emulator? It feels unfinished, though. The VirtualBox GUI sucks. The last update was in 2011. Development stalled in 2005, when Apple announced the Intel switch. AFAIK you can run 10.4 on PearPC. I tired with 10.2 (downloaded off WinWorld). I've never succeeded, though. I have gotten El Capitan to run in VMware. Search TPB for "El Capitan VMware". I'm thinking about building a hackintosh. I have all the tools necessary. OS X in VMware recognized my USB flash drive... but I haven't created an Apple account yet.
  • dosboxdosbox
    Bry89 wrote:
    stitch wrote:
    I am personally OK with 10.5 as well as it's just as unusable as 10.3 and 10.4 but if SomeGuy does not wish to keep it, then that's the official verdict for now. We can revisit 10.5 as the OS X platform matures further.
    If that may be added to the library sooner or later, I'm curious of what emulator may run it considering that PearPC can only support up to Tiger (the PowerPC version of it that is) as far as I know, unless making a Hackintosh needs to be done even though it is frowned upon for all the right reasons.

    Just curious, how can building a hackintosh be frowned upon for the right reasons?
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